Building trust: Strengthening the superintendent-school board relationship

A strong partnership between a school board and superintendent is key to a district’s success — but how do leaders build and maintain that trust? In this episode of Leading the Way, OSBA’s Scott Gerfen is joined by Dr. David Axner, executive director of the Buckeye Association of School Administrators, and Cheryl Ryan, director of OSBA's board and management services, to discuss best practices for fostering collaboration, overcoming communication challenges and more.

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For more resources, training and advocacy updates from the Ohio School Boards Association, visit ohioschoolboards.org.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

A strong superintendent school board relationship is the foundation of a successful school district. But how do leaders build and maintain that trust? Let's talk about it in this episode of Leading the Way. Hey everyone, it's OSBA Scott Girf, and I want to thank our sponsor, Papist and Associates. They're shaping policy with integrity. Well, a strong collaborative relationship between the school board and superintendent can drive student achievement, improve district operations, and foster a positive school culture. But what does it take to build and maintain that trust? And how can leaders overcome common challenges like communication barriers, role confusion, and board turnover? We have two experienced education leaders with us today to share their experiences. Dave Axner is a former superintendent and executive director of the Buckeye Association of School Administrators, and Cheryl Ryan, a former school board member, is OSBA's Director of Board and Management Services. Welcome in. Thank you. Good to be here. Thanks, Scott. Dave and Cheryl, you both have experience in these leadership roles. Can you briefly share your background and how your experiences inform your current work?

SPEAKER_00 1:06

That's a great question. I was a school board member for several years in Hilliard City Schools and then came to OSBA directly from there. I find that the work, I was fortunate in having a board that had a very functional, I think a high-functioning relationship with its superintendent. So I felt like I had sort of some good training ground when I came to OSBA. But in board services, which is the area of my expertise, we work all the time with helping boards be better. And the best way for them to be better is to have a super great relationship with their superintendent. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

So I started in Sydnesky City Schools, uh, getting into administration and then uh moved to Chagrin Falls as um again a principal and moved up the last seven years to the superintendency, uh, and then came down here to Columbus uh at Dublin City Schools. And um after that uh retired and came to Association Life, started with the Principal Association for a year, and then uh moved over to Bass Hutt, Buck Association of School Administrators, thought I would do a year or two, and uh ten years later here's my poops.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

So, from your perspective, Dave, why is the superintendent uh school board relationship so critical to a district success?

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Well, it is critical because uh, you know, superintendent, that that job description pretty much encompasses everything. And so um they're the leader, they've got to make ridiculous, you know, hard decisions and so forth. Um, but along with that, if if they're not in concert with the school board, um it's gonna hurt the the students, the staff, and the entire school community. So I I love to see when when those two entities uh can work together, believe in each other, it makes such a difference.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

You know, the board's responsibility is to work with the superintendent to set the direction for the district, to create the vision and the mission and the goals, and then to stay in that sort of high-minded governance mode. The board members as individually generally don't know what the superintendent, they don't know the the very um the details of a superintendent's job and all the hundreds of things they're managing on a daily basis. So that relationship, uh, the board needing to stay in concert with the superintendent about what's happening on the ground is tantamount to them being effective in the community.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

So when you build a strong partnership in anything, communication is key. Uh Cheryl, what best practices help ensure uh clear, productive communication between superintendents and boards?

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah, I think that's a million-dollar question because almost every time that I have worked with a board that's having issues with one another or with their superintendent, it tends to be about communication. Yeah. And I think a superintendent who is willing to do be very consistent with updates, uh, to be very accountable and trans and trans um what's the word I'm looking for? Transparent. Yes. With each individual board member. Oftentimes that's through the board president. But board members need to be transparent with the superintendent as well. And it's it's communication is a two-way street and it needs to be frequent, consistent, fair, and um, you know, professional.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Dave, anything you want to add to that?

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yeah, I mean, I would say one of the issues, there's no question that once in a while will excuse me, be uh the job itself and the ego will come forward with the superintendent because they're trying to make decisions and move forward uh uh constantly. Uh but those superintendents that we really work with in their uh beginning superintendent program to encourage them to take time with your board and and not just the entire board, but but individually talk with them, um, you know, their needs, their concerns, because you can't drop down in a district uh as a superintendent where you have board members that have letter jackets on from 20, 30, 40 years ago. They have kids in the school, and now I'm gonna tell them my goals, and this is the direction we're gonna go in. It's gotta be something that those goals and those you know activities that they want to move forward with are collective in nature and not just one person. And and it should be the same with the board in regards to that communication.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

So, as with any professional relationship, uh disagreements are inevitable. Uh, what are some of the effective strategies, Dave, uh, for resolving conflicts in a way, in a way that maintains that trust and progress?

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Yeah. Well, I I'll be honest, I think lately we've been a little out of whack. And um, you know, there's been more situations because of so of you know, coming through COVID, and then the politics are that federal politics are seeping down uh you know into the schools and into the jobs of superintendents of boards, and everybody's got their own feeling. Um and and sometimes, many times, that takes away with what we're supposed to be centering on, and is that's the students in our district and doing everything we can to make them uh successful. So um, you know, sometimes it it means that someone will not let up uh their opinion versus working to to get you know what what is best again for the district or or uh the students, and that's that's when it can get really difficult. Cheryl Isa, you want to add to that?

SPEAKER_00 6:35

I think that uh board members need to be willing to work with one another. I think a good board president is is really important to a board, a board president who's willing to engage all the other board members to being on the same page. Dave made a great point about getting to know your board members individually, especially in these sort of trying political times. Um, one of the biggest issues boards have is when individual board members have a passion that gets in the way of the collective thinking of the board. And that has to remain top of mind. We, regardless of our political position, we can't just say we're in it for the kids. We have to really mean it and we have to be willing to have conversations that bring us all to the same place of moving forward in terms of student achievement for our kids. And we can't help our superintendents be effective if we as board members can't get on the same page together.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

So, with you both being in your past roles as a board member and a superintendent, can you share some examples of those difficult superintendent board conversations maybe you've experienced or observed? And uh how were they successfully managed? I'll start with you, Dave.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Yeah, I I would start with just um again, my tenures in this position and seeing the difference of uh supporting and helping superintendents when um there was an issue that um there was a cause and there was a reason in regards to why that superintendent was called on the carpet, discipline, um, you know, hit the possibility of them losing their job, and and there was kind of a formula to that. But what what has happened is and and uh actually uh Dr. Rachel White from University of Texas is that is doing a lot of work on this and board and and superintendent relations. So there's there's data uh that that's pretty strong that's clear that um, you know, many times, the majority of times, and there's an increase of not having a cause in a superintendent, not because of his or her ability and doing their job, but is it being let go um or contract not non-renewed um with no cause? Had it had anything to do with that other than maybe a decision that that one school board member possibly started, uh, and then that majority falls that way, and that superintendent's looking for a job. So we're seeing a lot more of that. And it's pretty clear also in her data that um the contention and the political nature of what we're seeing now is seeping into what we're seeing uh with superintendents migrating to other places.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

I think sometimes it can be easy stuff too. I've gotten calls from board members that say my superintendent um talks to these two board members but doesn't talk to me. Again, it sort of goes back to that communication and making sure all information is shared by the superintendent with all board members, or making sure with the superintendent, the board president, that it's being shared with all board members. Sometimes it's a squabble between board members. And I always tell a board member never put your superintendent in the middle. The board's job to govern one another is the board's job. Sometimes it's about a superintendent evaluation. And the superintendent had goals that the full board agreed on in the summer and that have been monitored and tracked. And now we're at spring, and just as David said, superintendent makes a decision that affects a relative in the district, maybe negatively, and now all of a sudden that board member has an axe to grind. So uh those are all those are all the kinds of things that I think are not uncommon uh disagreements.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

One other thing I want to talk about is is board turnover is another factor that's uh impacting a superintendent's ability to maintain continuity. Uh how can superintendents and district leaders get through these kinds of transitions effectively?

SPEAKER_00 10:37

That's a great question. I'll take it first and then because probably uh it's a it's a it's a great question and it's and it's a hard question. We find at OSBA that every four years when we have board member elections, or every two years, excuse me, that we sometimes lose as many as a third of our board members or a third of them turnover. That's a whole lot of new bosses for us superintendents. And uh, and I think a good orientation program, a good program that um a superintendent and the central office put in place to orient a new board member, bring them on as quickly as possible, good board training. OSBA is certainly happy to provide that. I think those are some of the things that can help along the transition, and then maintaining that strategic plan. And then it doesn't matter when a new person comes into the joins the boat. If everybody else in the boat knows where they're going, it's much easier for the new person to uh to row in the right direction.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Yeah, I I would I would um probably look back at Conrad Ott, uh, superintendent for 27 years and the in Akron, um, which just doesn't happen. When outridges about three years in the district, and he did 27. And I was fortunate enough to have him in some of my doctoral uh classes uh at the University of Akron. And um I remember him telling us um you got to just quit counting at three. Uh we're you know, it's really hard to please five board members. And whenever things clicking and and you know, you're checking things off and you're getting it done, uh, it's fun. And and that district's gonna move with student data, with Flight, it just everybody comes together. But uh sometimes it just one board member um that uh has a right also to speak their word and their opinion, um, but is in no way the majority and just doesn't want to understand that, uh it gets a little tougher, and then all of a sudden it's two. Uh, I can't tell you how many times I've told superintendents on the phone or in person when they're really struggling with their school board, or maybe one, and and they're just ready to go to another district or this and that. And and I said, give it a year, just give it a year. Um, do your best to work with them, communicate to them, just because they're giving you a hard time, they should get the all the information everyone else is, and you'll be surprised. And most of the time, I'll hear a year later, yeah, you were right. It's good now, and we're okay. And and maybe they're not best friends, but at least they're ate out to do the work and and have uh good discussions.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Before we wrap up, uh what advice would you give a new superintendent or a newly elected school board member uh about fostering this partnership?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

One of the things I've said in the last few years more regularly is if the superintendent has those regular meetings with individual board members or two board members at a time, you know, what are your three greatest wins over the last few months? As a board member, what have you really enjoyed the last couple of months and what's been problematic for you? And then that's the board asking that question to the superintendent, you know, what are we doing to sort of get in your way? Or what am I as a board member doing to get in your way? If we can have those professional, respectful, two-way and open conversations, you know, the the disagreements that you mentioned, the hurdles might not happen. But um, I think the superintendents who enjoy the work and recognize that the board has a significant function to play in the district are superintendents that generally are going to have boards that respect one another.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Dave. Yeah, and again, it's it's different now. Um just at uh ask or talk to the the search teams uh that are trying to, you know, work with school boards and identify the next leader, uh, wherein you know, you go back 10, 15, 20 years, uh there would be 50 candidates that lost jobs. And now search teams will be calling us. Is there anybody that you guys think might might be good for this job? Uh and so now the the field has definitely shrunk uh because of the difficulty in what they have. Um and again, I think I do think it works both ways. Um it sometimes can be uh and and we'll tell them the superintendent, maybe maybe it's the way you're behaving and so forth. But it goes back to what we started with. Um the the primary thing of especially a new superintendent is to take the time to talk to the board collectively and individually, um, and don't push off for others to inform them and and so forth. You should be doing that as a leader.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Final thoughts before we uh wrap it up, Cheryl.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Well, I think I think Dave's talked about it a few times. It's just that it's uh the lake's a little bit muddy right now, right? Um, and it seems like as long as I've been doing this, there's always some issue that has everybody up in arms. Uh but the past couple years have been difficult. And it's a challenge to be a functional board, and it's a challenge to be a really highly effective board leadership team, including the superintendent and treasurer. But there are districts all over Ohio that are doing it, and they're doing it every day. And um, so I hope that we can continue to serve, and I look forward to the good work that continues to get done.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Well, I know we've got a great relationship of presented uh multiple places uh in and out of the state of Ohio. Um so we're we're on the same page, and we know our associations, the good news is we get a law is a lot of communication and uh in this building alone. Um, you know, the the other piece is uh I would hope that um the those positive board members that um again maybe it is the majority, but uh sometimes can uh just be quiet versus uh you know letting that that superintendent that or that board member that maybe's being negative for the wrong reasons, um, you know, maybe they have to get loud sometime uh and not let that happen to the school board or the district or whatever because it just harms everybody. And it doesn't help move the superintendent out. Um again, there's clear data that um just because a school board uh superintendent relation is rocky, that doesn't move the superintendent out. And there's data. But on the other hand, if that relationship's good, um then it's it's uh that superintendent is is gonna be more likely to stay in the same district.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Well, Dave and Cheryl, thank you again for coming on. This is some good stuff. Uh and I know, Cheryl, this is your last podcast. We're gonna miss your expertise. You are retiring after how many years with OSBA?

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Um 17 and a half.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

17 and a half.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

In my 18th year, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Well, we wish you well in retirement and in your next chapter. And uh we are gonna miss your expertise on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Well, thank you. Call me anytime.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Thanks, guys, for coming on, and thank you to our sponsor, Pappas and Associates. They're shaping policy with integrity.